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Umar Khanbiev: "Alone we will never be able to solve this problem" From an interview with Marco Masi. Milan, 12 October 2004. What are your aims and your priorities in particular as health minister in Maskhadov's government? "My present job is very unusual for a doctor. Before I worked as a doctor and my job gave me great satisfactions, I loved it very much. Today instead I travel through the world, meeting people, asking for help and I'm still busy with sick children, but under an other aspect, that is trying to find the means by which these persons ca be cured. But I preferred to cure them directly rather than to look for the resources or to find out for those who could do so. And I had to see that also if its all about sick persons, patients and illnesses, politics must here also be made. There is politics involved in these issues, and I regret this." More in general as a health minister you travel throughout Europe in order to achieve and to do what exactly? "My aim consists in making people aware on the problem of Chechnya, because I do not consider the Chechen problem an internal problem of Russia, but it is an international problem. It is the international community that must solve this problem. There are no other possible solutions." But I know that, beyond your political mission, you have been successful also to convince the Italian government to grant entry visas to Chechen children who now can be cured in various hospitals. Did you achieve this also in other parts of Europe? "Also in this case unfortunately it is a difficult and delicate matter where politics comes in. It is very difficult to obtain visas for these children and their families in Italy or other countries and to obtain the authorization from the Russian side. Now for instance, after Italy, in France we have begun something, but I could convince them to accept only two children, after that no other visas have been granted anymore. I would say that Italy is the country which showed to be more open to this type of operation and where we have found the greater reply and positive reactions." What is the official justification of the authorities of the European governments in refusing entry visas to children who need to be cured? "There is not an explicit refusal, but at some point of the bureaucratic process all stops, there is like a bureaucratic inertia, because many of these refugees have a passport which is no longer valid or they do not have it at all, or there are not all the necessary documents or a whole series of problems are born. Also from the French part for instance they asked them to return to Chechnya in order to obtain other documents and additional certifications which were not really necessary. At that point we understood that there was no way to change things, there is a wall in front of us. In Europe they find always an excuse or a reason that halts the bureaucratic process to cure Chechen refugees." But, also in these times with the alarm on terrorism, it is absurd to think that crippled children can be considers a danger. What are the real reasons that stand behind this attitude of closure of the European governments in offering a simple humanitarian aid? "No, of course, they know very well that terrorists do not enter their countries in this way and that they can reach them in thousand other ways. It is simply about the fear of the competent authorities from part of their superior ones, that is they are afraid of the reaction of their government, which in turn fears that of Russia, or they fear that this activity can displeasure Russia." Still under the sanitary profile, what is the situation in Chechnya? "In Chechnya there is an epidemic of tuberculosis that hits approximately 30-40% of the children. As it is known tuberculosis is a social disease that depends on the alimentary and living conditions. Moreover there is a disastrous ecological situation and this too favours this epidemic of tuberculosis. There have been also cases of hepatitis-A, but I'm also worried about the psychological and psychical state of health of these children. These children live in a permanent state of terror. They see blood sheds and they see killings. This renders them fragile and can extend their psychological trauma. I would say that all, 100% of the Chechen children need psychotherapeutic rehabilitation. But alone we will never be able to solve this problem, and therefore, also in this case, it is a problem of international responsibility. It is also the international community that must occupy itself with this problem. And it is precisely what I'm making now. My action is aimed at a more distant future, perhaps when there will be peace, where with the aid of many countries it will be possible to supply a psychotherapeutic rehabilitation to these children." What it is the situation in terms of sanitary infrastructures in Chechnya? If possible, can you give also some information in quantitative terms? "According to official data there are 400.000 children in Chechnya, but this isn't possible because this represents probably the whole population. According to our data there are 200.000 of them. Even if I don't remember now the exact figures, I guess that on the whole Chechen territory there were something like 450 sanitary structures among clinics, hospitals, etc, and we had 15 small hospitals in the open country and about twenty in the cities. In these two wars 80% of these structures have been destroyed. And we have lost 50% of our medical staff, not because they have all been killed, but also because many have gone somewhere else or they had to escape. One can imagine how catastrophic the situation is when 80% of the sanitary structures are no more and the medical staff is halved. Before the second Chechen war, when I was health minister, there were 3500 doctors, while they were 7000 before the beginning of the first conflict. Now it is to difficult to say how many remained. Probably they have been reduced by another 50%. Currently we have large deficiencies of specialists, above all in the field of neuropathology and the psychiatry, who would be truly indispensable in these situations. Moreover we lack of psychotropic drugs. When people are under stress and in a situation of war it is very important to carry out these programs of psychotropic drugs distribution. I have tried to make this in the period in which I was minister in Chechnya with the aid of international organizations, but now Russia does not authorize it anymore." Considering this state of affairs, as health minister, what do you ask precisely to Europe and the international community? Humanitarian aid? A political intervention? "I ask to stop the war and to re-establish peace [laughter]. Only through this it will be possible to think to solve these problems. Because as doctor I believe that the cure of the symptoms does not cure the disease. Sure, the humanitarian aid is necessary but it does not solve the problems. First of all one must stop the things at the source, because only by doing so we can approach the solution of these problems." I would like to make some more specific questions now. More than a year ago on the Kavkaz Center appeared a long article of you where you accused the Russian government of organizing a commerce of ablated organs from live Chechen prisoners and hostages. These are grave accusations, aren't it? Do you confirm that and have you something to add about this? "We have good reasons to say that. There is only one reason why we refrain from talking about these things: if the sources of our information are identified by the Russians, they could suffer or also "disappear". That's why many things cannot be said today because it would be dangerous for these people. But when the war will be over and we will exhume the bodies of the persons who underwent organ ablation I would like to see an international commission. I will work for the creation of a commission for an inquiry on this. But today, to carry out an inquiry in a territory that is under the control of the FSB would be a suicide. Meanwhile we will continue to collect all the facts we can find." I would like to make you also a more personal question, if you allow me. Are there some developments as far as your relatives goes who have been arrested in March of this year by the Russian authorities, among them also your brother Magomed. "They are still hostages, but on house arrest. They have been freed, but they are always under surveillance. Also Magomed is on house arrest and has been warned that if he will make an attempt to move there will be an answer against the others who would be taken as hostages again." Is there a question that you would like to hear that I did not make? "I do not know which question this could be, I rather will give you an answer. I want simply to express the hope that this war truly ends. That would be for me the greatest happiness."