Russian liberal leader slams media control, defends arrested Yukos boss.

The arrest of Yukos head Mikhail Khodorkovskiy was unwarranted, Grigoriy Yavlinskiy, leader of the Russian liberal party Yabloko, has told Russian commercial TV presenter Vladimir Solovyev.

Speaking on the Sunday breakfast talk show "Orange Juice", Yavlinskiy said, however, that Khodorkovskiy's arrest was not unexpected, admitting that it could affect the funding Yabloko had expected to get from Yukos.

Yavlinskiy also criticized the increasing centralization of power and "total media control" in Russia, saying that all political broadcasts were now pre-recorded. The following is an excerpt from the interview broadcast by Russian NTV on 2 November, subheadings inserted editorially:

[Interviewer] The arrest of [Mikhail] Khodorkovskiy and the searches at the [public relations] company ASK [Strategic Communications Agency], which led to the seizure of 700,000 dollars without an owner as well as of files related to the activities of Yabloko, have dealt a most severe blow to the oldest democratic party of Russia as well as its leader, Grigoriy Yavlinskiy. But he, being a good boxer, knows how to take blows. Good morning, Grigoriy Alekseyevich. Am I right to assume that the Yabloko party does not have the slightest chance of being elected to the State Duma now, because its main financial artery has been severed? Yukos clamp-down was no surprise

[Yavlinskiy] No, because elections to our country's State Duma are not so directly associated with money just yet.

[Interviewer] But the lack of money will definitely affect you, won't it?

[Yavlinskiy] Yes, of course, this is not exactly a present. However, generally speaking, we were not completely caught off guard when events took this course. We had long suspected that something of the kind might happen.

[Interviewer] So, you must have discussed with Mr Khodorkovskiy that the situation around him was serious and that preparations for the worst had to be made.

[Yavlinskiy] It was evident that everything was serious after Platon Lebedev [the head of Menatep and one of Yukos's principal shareholders] was arrested. Already then, that was no longer a laughing matter. In addition, we were well aware of the system, in which the elections were being organized, and we understood the system that is in place in our country. So, that [Khodorkovskiy's arrest] was not completely unexpected. Over the past five years, I have received in excess of 1,000 appeals regarding similar developments all over the country. Only the people who were affected were not so famous as Mr Khodorkovskiy, and the companies affected were not the world's fourth largest, either. But generally speaking, these processes are affecting everybody starting from small things like beer taverns.

[Passage omitted] That is a system phenomenon, and now we have encountered a very vivid case of it [Khodorkovskiy's arrest].

Money seized from firm related to Yabloko

[Interviewer] There has been ongoing speculation about the 700,000 dollars seized at the office of a company that is associated with the activities of Yabloko. Was the money brought in by secret services agents, or was that really the money belonging to any of the following: a, Yukos; b, that company; or c, your party?

[Yavlinskiy] I know for sure that, unfortunately, this was not the money of our party. That I know for sure. Whether the money belonged to that company [Strategic Communications Agency] or Yukos, I do not know.

[Interviewer] But the money was there, wasn't it?

[Yavlinskiy] Prosecutors say that yes, it was found and seized there. And our MPs who were in those premises say that, although they did not actually see the seizure, it seems that the money was there, indeed.

Total media control

[Interviewer] Do you experience pressure on you and your party?

[Yavlinskiy] Yes, the situation is more complicated now even than it was, say, in 1999.

[Interviewer] What were the party's difficulties in 1999?

[Yavlinskiy] In 1999, the party was attacked for its stance on the war in Chechnya. That was an all-out attack by all the media. There were statements by the Union of Right Forces [SPS] that the Russian army was regaining its pride in Chechnya and that everybody who saw no need for a massive war in Chechnya was a traitor. Of course, that military hysteria was a complicated thing.

[Interviewer] So, you were going to say that the situation is even more complicated now.

[Yavlinskiy] At present, full, absolute and total control over mass media has been put in place. In practice, TV and radio appearances have become very difficult and have to be coordinated in advance. Furthermore, I will tell you one totally unexpected thing.

[Interviewer] Please, do.

[Yavlinskiy] All the political programmes that are broadcast now are pre-recorded. Can you imagine that?

[Passage omitted] The current developments around Yukos and Khodorkovskiy only confirm what we are saying.

[Interviewer] So, are you being denied air time?

[Yavlinskiy] We are not an exception in this respect. Our party is not being treated in any special way. That is if we exclude the raid by the Prosecutor-General's Office to the office of the company [Strategic Communications Agency] that has for over a year been in charge of our advertising campaign. They seized our documents, addresses of [regional] headquarters, addresses of our activists, our organizational charts and all the material that had been prepared. If we do not consider that as something special, then [sentence incomplete].

[Interviewer] But that is unusual, indeed.

[Yavlinskiy] Yes, that was unexpected, even though the prosecutor says that she will return all the documents and will guarantee confidentiality.

[Interviewer] But haven't you been threatened personally? As far as I can remember, all the elections, in which you have taken part to date, were dangerous to you and your family.

[Yavlinskiy] In our country, any political activities become complicated, provided they are purposeful and serious.

[Passage omitted]

In Russia, many Stalinist methods of government are still in use.

[Passage omitted]

Yukos boss arrest unwarranted

[Interviewer] But speaking of Khodorkovskiy, we should not completely disregard the fact that Khodorkovskiy suddenly earned 7.2bn dollars through methods that were far from lawful, even though they may have been formally legal at the time. But back then, such people as Khodorkovskiy were in a position to suit laws to their needs. And Khodorkovskiy, too, is one of the oligarchs and one of the pillars of that system, isn't he?

[Yavlinskiy] I am defending Khodorkovskiy now, because I do not see any grounds whatsoever for his imprisonment and I do not understand that. I believe that he is not a killer, or at least I do not know of such facts. I believe he poses no danger to society. I think that, if there are charges against him, it would be enough to make him sign an undertaking not to leave Moscow and then carry out the investigation. There is no need whatsoever to organize totally inadequate intimidation and shows for the whole country.

[Interviewer] Yes, his name is Khodorkovskiy and not [Chechen warlord Shamil] Basayev after all.

[Yavlinskiy] Indeed.

[Passage omitted]

Putin unwilling to change system

[Interviewer] I have a different question. Maybe the current developments fit the traditional scheme of Russian history very nicely, as the revolution is devouring its children? Maybe now is the time to deal with the oligarchs?

[Yavlinskiy] All the 30 oligarchs could be sent to Matrosskaya Tishina [Moscow remand centre, where Khodorkovskiy is held]. Khodorkovskiy's name could be replaced by that of Solovyev or Petrov. But that will not change anything.

[Interviewer] So, the system must be changed?

[Yavlinskiy] Of course. It will only degenerate, because talented people will be replaced by absolute nonentities. That is basically what is going on.

[Interviewer] Yes, but changes in the system always begin with the cutting off of the hydra's heads. If we take this as the starting point, do you think that the latest steps by the president are indicative of changes in the system. He has accepted the resignation of Aleksandr Voloshin [Kremlin chief of staff], who was considered by everybody to be the main advocate of the oligarchs. Maybe that is signalling changes, because the president has deviated from the classical Russian traditions and said: "I cannot interfere in the work of the courts and the Prosecutor-General's Office, as I have no right to do that". Maybe that shows that the system is becoming healthier.

[Yavlinskiy] No, this is no way to do that. As far as the reshuffling is concerned, it is logical, and there is nothing unexpected in it.

[Interviewer] And is the timing a coincidence - the arrest of Khodorkovskiy and resignation of Voloshin?

[Yavlinskiy] I do not see anything supernatural in that. Still, the president is not revamping the system. He is not changing it. He is not implementing comprehensive and essential changes in the system. Secondly, he is not taking decisions on the adoption of laws to ensure transparent lobbying. He is not taking decisions on transparent and clear funding of political parties. He is not taking decisions on public television that would not be subordinate to anybody. He is not taking decisions on anticorruption procedures in the formation of the government, the State Duma's corps of deputies and the administration. He is not taking decisions on political restrictions on the interference of major oligarchs in the government's work. Thirdly, there has been no underlying decision on a truly antimonopolistic policy that would restrict the hungry interest groups that failed to lay their hands on state assets in the mid-1990s.

[Passage omitted]

[Interviewer] Let us take a simpler look at the situation. Has the influence of oligarchs increased or decreased during Putin's four year's in power?

[Yavlinskiy] The roles have changed. Some oligarchic groups have stepped back, while other oligarchic groups have come forward.

[Interviewer] So, you can see no structural changes, can you?

[Yavlinskiy] These large corporate groups have their representatives in all the structures. They feed them off their hands, while the latter take decisions favourable for them.

[Interviewer] Whom do they feed?

[Yavlinskiy] Officials.

[Passage omitted]

Liberal parties get closer in face of crisis

[Interviewer] Now that Yabloko is evidently going through a hard time, the only party that has come to your support was SPS. And your joint statement with [SPS leader] Boris Nemtsov seemed very bold.

[Passage omitted] Maybe now is an opportune time for an alliance between the democratic forces of the country, which are your Yabloko and SPS, in spite of some fundamental differences between your parties.

[Yavlinskiy] This process is taking place already to the degree that is necessary. Take our joint statement, for example. Regarding our fundamental differences, of course, they are still there, as you said. But now is not the right time to discuss them. The situation now is such that we need not discuss the lingering differences.

[Interviewer] Has President Vladimir Putin personally answered to your call [an appeal to political parties to meet with Putin over the Yukos affair]?

[Yavlinskiy] No, he has not. If there is a meeting, I will discuss these essential issues with the president. As I just told you, I will tell him that these repressive measures will not take us anywhere and they will not solve a single problem. Therefore, it seems to me that efforts to resolve fundamental issues in the country are in this case counterproductive. That is an exceptionally serious issue. I understand the wish to demonstrated the power of the state to the oligarchs. However, the state in this case does not look powerful, but rather naughty. There is a big difference here. As you know, power commands respect, while violence only provokes hatred. That is why I would like our state to be really powerful and serve its citizens, instead of being naughty to them and intimidating them.

[Passage omitted]

Yabloko hopes to win seats in State Duma

[Interviewer] So, in spite of all, you expect to win in the next State Duma election, don't you?

[Yavlinskiy] Yes, we know that our electorate will support us. We really need every vote. And the line of our party has been clearly defined by now. We are a party of citizens and a party of freedom.

[Interviewer] A party of hesitant Russian intellectuals?

[Yavlinskiy] And intellectuals, too, of which we are proud.

[Passage omitted]

Yukos men on Yabloko list

[Interviewer] Then why aren't those people on your party's candidate list? Why does your party list include Yukos people for the first time in the party's history? As a matter of fact, Yabloko had always been absolutely independent in the past.

[Yavlinskiy] Yes, there are several people on our party list who represent the oil major. That was Yukos's condition for funding our party. We accepted that condition. We believe that this open policy is right. We cannot earn that money ourselves, as the law does not allow us to do that. Meanwhile, our party line - i.e. the taking of decisions and voting in the State Duma - does not depend on whoever may finance us.

[Passage omitted]

Yabloko presidential candidate

[Interviewer] Grigoriy Alekseyevich, will you take part in the presidential election?

[Yavlinskiy] That is quite likely. Yabloko will take part in the presidential election. We will determine the forms of that participation right after the State Duma election.

[Interviewer] And what does that mean?

[Yavlinskiy] That means that there will be a congress and the congress will decide that why don't we nominate you, for example, as a presidential candidate?

[Passage omitted]